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Posts by RealEuropeanElitist

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9/7/2011 8:27 pm

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Real Masked Truth said:See the thing is there is always the possibility that they will release it so it weighs on the victim more then if they just release them because it is like waiting for the other shoe to drop. Most security forces know this and use that more then showing the images because it leaves doubt in the journalist or protestor on when the images will surface. Its a trick that was created during the cold war to blackmail people in working for other spy groups. It has been refined over the years to the state it is today where they have a file of you doing something or in a humiliated position and use that to keep you under wraps. No matter if they release them or not the fact that they have them always weighs on the person and over time it does not weigh as much as minutes, days or months after but it is a way to curtail the activities of a person.



It´s psychological torture of the most extreme degree. I don´t know the best way would be to point that out somehow. To prepare the public for it. I mean some would still whack off in sin at the images and videos but the broad public will mass behind the humiliated rape victim. I believe the correct strategy here is offense and not waiting and being on the defense.
9/7/2011 8:25 pm

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Real Masked Truth said:As for any other images or video that may have been taken from the crowds the funny thing is when those people would post them or attempt to post them they then would collect them and block them in order to keep it under wraps. They would even go as far as send the secret police to the house or isp of the person posting to collect all materials from that person regarding the post and then place that in the file of the victim. This way they can say it was not us but we have stopped the images and video on are end and are still looking for the people responsible. If they are ever pressed they would pick several people that they feel are a threat like protestors and haul them in for the reason of the attack. Kills two birds with one stone. It also gives way to the fact that they can also deliver the material if ever needed to the web and humiliate that person at will. Most security police groups will keep those files in a seperate area with others that they have humiliating stuff on mostly high ranking politicians and government people and even famous people or journalist. Gives them a marker if you will for anything they may need in the future.



They can´t get everybody. Some will not post them online from egypt but from somewhere else. There are countless methods of tricking the police i believe. >But nontheless your argument strikes a cord. I can believe the police will at least try to do that what you suggested. It is only logical.
9/7/2011 4:48 pm

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Real Masked Truth said:Well you can't call a bluff called yet on that because they made a point to let her see them take the pictures and she knows they have them so just because they have not surfaced is a big fact. She the journalist knows that they are out there and it still plays on her mind and leaves doubt. Or as most would say "Mind games". The journalist is made to see that the pictures are being taken and the people taking them make it clear that they are taking pictures so that the victim knows pictures exist. Then the pictures are put in that persons folder on the computer and when and if they ever try anything or speak ill of what ever group is running the show then they can put them out there. It is kind of like a marker if you will. An unspoken agreement with that person the victim and the secret police that we have this and will and can humiliate you when ever we want so you better be good. Kind of like Santas good list.



Yes but that´s it! These are ONLY mindgames. Bluffs. These are not serious attempts to release the footage. There is no plan for it i believe. It´s only mindgames and the best part is: Whenever they try to call the bluff they will only hurt and humiliate themselves because then it will be clear (professional footage) that members of the security apparatus were indeed responsible for this outrage. It´s like a chess game. I think the egyptian reporter in 2003 understood that somehow. That´s why she called the bluff and nothing really happened.

Its only really hard to THINK THAT THROUGH when you are a victim because your mind is already severly bleeding pain all over the place. That´s why you need people to help you think this through.
9/7/2011 4:36 pm

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Real Masked Truth said:The other thing that bothers me is the lack of personal images from the biggest party in the world that night between a certain time frame. If you ever go to a party and take pictures even with a cell phone the best images always come later when everyone has gotten loosened up by celebrating and start to have more fun. Yet from tahrir square that night a gap in images and footage between 11pm and 330am. I know a few have been shown to run into that time frame but they are started prior to 11pm. Why is that time frame so important well I am thinking that those who are trying to bury this and cover it up would know the exact time frame of the attack and would also have the ability to prevent images and videos from surfacing in that time frame given that the better the tech the more safe gaurds are put in to do just that. Had it been a few years back then it would have been a bigger problem because most cameras did not have gps and geo tagging but now today they claim that those are put in to help make it easier for the people using them to post their images and videos on line into the social media but it also allows governments to block what they don't want out there.



But these egyptians have elder tech do they not? So their mobile phones would possible be able to post images easier into the web?

But still the timeframe blot is curious indeed.
9/7/2011 4:31 pm

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Real Masked Truth said:I still don't think that their bluff was called because by not releasing the images they leave even more doubt and questions in the mind of the victim. It adds to the humiliation at the time and also leaves doubt in the mind of the victim on rather or not the images will make the light of day. The longer they don't show up the more it plays on the mind of the victim for they question their own sanity on rather or not they took pictures and rather or not they will surface.



Possible but in the 2003 case it´s now eight years ago! I mean after that you can surely call that bluff a lame duck? And if they had not the chutzpe to do that with an egypt journalist why should they have the courage to do it now with an american one who is far more powerful and connected (even with high echelons of political power)? That doesn´t make sense. I believe the bluff is a dead end. I am more concerned with possible bystanders filming alongside. They are not so easily summarized as a bluff. They could release it anytime.

Someone should probably tell Lara Logan that to ease her soul a bit.
9/7/2011 4:25 pm

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Real Masked Truth said:The parts that are lacking also serve to prevent people from finding out what actually happened and to buy into their story. The way you can determine this is no time line what so ever, no start point, no end point just that it started when the camera light went out but who is to say that the footage they showed is from the camera light going out right before the attack. If I was going to misdirect but tell a story I would use a previous time early in the night when they had stopped filming to take a break or relocate and use that footage instead of the actually start to further mislead anyone home grown investigators and cloudy the water but tell the story. That could also be why they came out and said several times that the guys in the background of that famous image had nothing to do with it because in fact that was early prior to the real event.



Yea that is possible. YOu are right KEY information is missing in the dozens in this case. Reason: It was a too horrible assault with nuances that are not easily transferable to the public. I am afraid that is the reason the president called her. The vicious attack was something that needed to be hushed up because it could have serious consequences.
9/7/2011 4:18 pm

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Real Masked Truth said:That is correct Compassion for the female journalist from 2003 has said several times that they took a lot of pictures of her naked and not one has surfaced and the same with the virginity tests that the military performed on the female protestors. It makes you wonder if those who were taking pictures were not the same group and if so I am wondering what there servers have.



I think these photos and the like are no more than bluffs. They are only made to torture her with thoughts of the possiblity of surfacing anytime. But if you call that bluff you see that nothing happens.

But: Private cellphone images and videos are a different thing. They can surface anytime.
9/7/2011 2:53 pm

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The Real superjerk said:

There is too much to be gained and your explaination of an altruistic media and self regulating internet just makes me roll my eyes. Not because there is not some truth in what you say but because it in no way accounts for the extent of the black out we have seen here.



I never did say CBS didn´t try something. There´s a special theory of mine. Such stories do tend to develop in three phases: Initiationphase (Footage has surfaced in one place) Viral Phase (Footage is in many places) Lockdownphase (Police and regulative forces of the web are deleting Footage and Footage cannot be found) In the Lockdownphase you can be sure that CBS would throw their weight behind eliminating everything with Police and other institutions. But even CBS cannot really prevent Initiation phase. If Footage surfaces it will take time to locate it. That is a given.

If you say I am naive then i have to say: You are cynic. When i believe too much in the ethics of the web you believe too much in the lack of it. In Reality it´s something in the middle. You have regulative forces in the web as you have destructive forces. Just watch THIS THREAD. You have vulgar trolls that want to watch LL be raped in every way possible and then you have people like Compassion. That´s a classical check of forces. You in the States are proud of that...of this principle of power checks. The same is in effect in the internet.

If Larry Flint would do what you assume he would do then he will get in TROUBLE. Believe me. He will get into trouble like everyone who thinks this is porn material. He is far too clever for it. There is a HUGE difference between sunbathing and Full out rape: In 2003, he also purchased nude photographs of Private Jessica Lynch, who was captured by Iraqi forces, rescued from an Iraqi hospital by US troops and celebrated as a hero by the media. Flynt stated he would never show any of the photographs, calling Lynch a "good kid" who became "a pawn for the government" (wikipedia)

He knows very well how far he can go. Like anybody else in the porn industry.
9/7/2011 2:41 pm

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The Real superjerk said:

Your examples don't hold water either. Lara is famous the little girl in sweden is not. Lara's incident would have been recorded and witnessed by hundreds or even thousands of people. People not involved in the crime just witnesses. Where are they, they haven't even been named. There is not even many credible accounts of her even being there that night. How is that possible? This is a huge story of rape and violence that sticks out like a sore thumb in the even bigger story of a regime crumbling.



Lara is NOT as famous as you would think outside the U.S. I mean it: In continental europe rarely one knows her. I am an exception in this regard. LL is more a NATIONAL celebrity.

And i never said there wasn´t TONs of footage out there. But the problem is to get the footage out of the hands of these people to the internet. And that´s complicated in a country where a dictator just got kinda overthrown but the whole security apparatus stayed. The same apparatus who may have administrated the whole mess in the first place. Yes of course it sticks out like a sore thumb but when EVERY journalist says: No. I will NOT research this story. Then you got Nada. Journalists are gatekeepers of information. They are the guys who can really research things. If these guys go on strike you don´t get certain information. And i believe we had a kind of strike here. Of course nuts like Schussels and Beck kinda would have broadcasted evidence but they are not REAL journalists. The real journalists are those who get knee deep in shit and blood to get you information. And these people are very aware of the fact that they share special kinship status with Lara Logan.






9/7/2011 2:34 pm

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The Real superjerk said:@ EuropeanElitist

So you don't think there was a successful black out of this story? Seriously. You think the every reporter and blogger respects Lara so much that they will forego the huge circulation boosts and increased readership because she is a colleague. You think people with this video that is worth a lot of money simply haven't got around to distributing it. You think the internet just wipes this stuff away the minute it is uploaded, automatically? That's nieve Elitest.



They don´t necessarily respect Lara so much, Superjerk. But they respect themselves and their profession. A journalist will - like a soldier - rarely be inclined to hear about some colleague blown to bits and being tortured. Why is that so? It hits too close to home. It´s perfectly human that every journalist - especially the females - were shocked to their bones by that story.

I didn´t EVER say that the internet wipes stuff away immediately. But it does after a time. You want to know how i came to know about Lara Logan? She is completely unknown in continental europe! But at a site i encountered a porn story about her. Then i was informed that this person really existed. A few hours later the porn story was ERASED by the moderators of that forum. Reason: Even in our extreme sex section real rapes are not to be discussed or brought to attention in ANY form. Of course there are sites that do not share this standpoint. But many are.






9/7/2011 12:18 pm

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CompassionBreak said:I think so



The she is not going to be blackmailed (when it was organized by some security apparatus)
That´s good, isn´t it?
9/7/2011 12:15 pm

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. said:There was no assault. It's just another media hoax. Turn the TV off. Please.



You don´t believe that really. YOu are just frustrated about the media coverage. Rightly frustrated. But come on the damage is clearly there. She was hurt beyond reasonable doubt.
9/7/2011 12:07 pm

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. said:They would not operate in the crowd like that, completely against their MO



MO=Modus operandi?

Maybe parts of the assault were more organized than others. Remember: The CBS interview is lacking parts (with high probablity) We can only assume two things: Either the parts that were left out were highly inconsequential or the parts were very important for understanding the assault. I tend to believe the second argument (for various reasons)
9/7/2011 12:04 pm

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. said:
. said:
. said:"Okay, it's about staying alive now. I have to just surrender to the sexual assault. What more can they do now? They're inside you everywhere."


that to me means she was raped with dirty cock


That's what she means.
Raped and sodomized



Hey Rape and sodomizing are not on the same level. Correctly it should read: Raped vaginally and anally. Rape is more general sodomizing more particular.

Yes i know i am overly correct sometimes. But i think "she" deserves that of us. If we are talking about this then let´s be as precise as possible and not clumsy.

PS: We have grounds to assume that the penises of these "men" were indeed dirty. It takes high hygiene to keep male genitalia clean. Thank you for pointing that out. Over and Out.
9/7/2011 11:57 am

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CompassionBreak said:yes, that was from me



I think i can remember. Was it about this woman who was politically active? She went on to be political and still the footage was not released?
9/7/2011 10:29 am

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CompassionBreak said:Actually, it really does seem to me that Masked Truth and Superjerk DISAGREE with eachother on at least one very important point. Masked Truth has found, as I understand, that the nude videos of other victims of the Egyptian Secret Police do not necessarily get out into circulation.
Please, correct me if I am wrong.



Where did he say that? In the above sentence he just wrote about Footage from that night. Or do you mean something prior to the sentence? *puzzled and bewildered*
9/7/2011 9:01 am

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. said:http://youtu.be/aMrw90lUuDU

I know that video is fake. I'm just wondering, man, why go through all the effort to create that document and present that video on YouTube? It's a deliberate attempt to deceive. By who? Egyptians? Some random American? Why was this video made?



I rather think he wanted to make fun of people. It was a mocking of the people who read the story at Fat Kids Channel.
9/7/2011 6:25 am

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. said:I'm with Superjerk and Masked Truth. It's downright eerie...


It´s not. We only have false assumptions about how the internet works.
9/7/2011 6:24 am

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The Real Tellguy said:
How can a news agency manage to black out everything and even silence their competition? Even with the help of both governments involved how could they keep all pictures and video from reaching the web when such evidence is sought after by millions and worth millions to the right pornography distributor? If they managed this sort of tight control can fascism be far behind? Such power could destroy our democracy.



Come on don´t be like this. From my viewpoint it is entirely logical where we are now. People just assume that EVERYTHING hits the Internet RIGHT NOW and it stays there FOREVER. That is just untrue. The internet is - as we have all learned by now - much more ethical and regulated than we thought. I mean yesterday i went to a fantasy rape site and what did i read there written big and bold?

WARNING 18 Years ADULTS ONLY!
This is a forum for consenting adults to share their fantasies and explore their dark sites. We do not allow ANY discussion about real rape, bestiality and under 18ys.

(same site pulled down a Lara Logan Rape story six months ago)

The internet regulates itself too. Oh yes there are sites out there that are run by cynical motherfuckers I know. But these are not so widespread as most would assume. Plus: There may be not material out there by now because concerned parties diden´t have the inclination to release them (yet) Egypt is NOT at peace already. There is much turmoil still going on. Paradoxically speaking the footage could hit the web when egypt has really stabilized itself.

On the other hand: Why did no other newspaper and network report the whole thing? Well...it was a colleague that got attacked in a very special way. And researching the story would mean yes you had to send journalists to egypt (again) But the situation is very fluid and still very dangerous. Especially for noisy reporters.

No iam not as shocked that NO information is out there. Just try to find footage from the rave party gang rape of the 16 year old swedish girl. And her pics even got uploaded to facebook! And now? Nada. Nothing.

I should (again) write a paper on all this. People need to be informed.
9/6/2011 10:37 pm

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. said:
RealEuropeanElitist said:
CompassionBreak said:
But the bottom line, Euro, is that they do need to develop MANY back up plans, and ultimately the networks should be held accountable FOR NOT HAVING BACK UP PLANS. Not so much for the event itself.



I am talking background plans to maybe address scenarios accordingly. For example: I send female journalists into the Congo. Okay. There is a certain chance that some of them will get raped. Even gangraped. Even kidnapped and raped a prolonged time. What do i (as manager of network) do to plan for such an emotional and personal crisis?



Nobody is going to address this because no one would want to admit that this could happen. Neither the network or the journalists will acknowledge that things could get that bad. The CPJ has updated the guidelines to acknowledge that journalists can be physically and/or sexually assaulted. I guess that is progress, but again, why would someone want to sign up for an assignment where they have acknowledged these possibilities? Better to wear rose colored glasses and not think about it.



That was possible until NOW. But more and more rape cases of journalists are reported. I mean a few years back there wasn´t even the word "Code of Silence". With more and better technology available cases will become more likely that involve the filming/photographing of the act and then later the distribution. You can wear rose colored glasses if you want but you can´t fake ignorance when everybody is yelling at you that your employees get systematically raped. Besides: Soldiers and Policemen are also in danger of being physically assaulted very much all the time. That´s not the real problem. The real problem is thoughtlessness. And not even in networks or newspapers. Also in Organisations like the Peace Corps. In a nutshell you NEED guys or gals that think scenarios through that are highly offensive to most people. There has to be people who seriously plan for BAD outcomes. You can´t spare these people. You need them. Because you cannot improvise in these matters. That would be the worst crime of all.
9/6/2011 10:03 pm

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. said:You have discovered the formula for world peace : Only allow artists into the military, top to bottom! This means the end of war! You are a genius.



LOL.
9/6/2011 9:14 pm

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. said:Cliff notes of the first 360 pages? Anyone?



Plz no. It would read like the internet pendant to LOVE STORY.
9/6/2011 9:11 pm

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CompassionBreak said:No, he should. I insist. It is just that you do not have that kind of sense of humor.



Thanks ;)
9/6/2011 8:41 pm

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. said:You know... you dont have to make a post in here every time you stop by to check. You don't have to write every time.



I know. I fight against my OCD but it´s hard. The best way is to combat it with another OCD.

Thank you for pointing my obsessive writing out. I am in your debt.
9/6/2011 8:32 pm

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Birds of Feather said:I come here as well every day. And when I leave, I feel, "what was I smoking tonight?" I never figured it out.



Seriously now: This thread IS like a drug. That´s perfectly acceptable to say. Smoking trolls would be a good metaphor for it even if you are yourself a troll. That´s okay.
 

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