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Posts by RealEuropeanElitist

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10/24/2011 4:56 pm

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. said:http://prosemiteundercover.phpbbnow.com/viewtopic.php?t=24030&sid=3ede148f2eb4c2faffd2c58e793bcf7d

The problem is NOT Islam but more broadly speaking culture and a lack of disciplining and socialization (nothing to do with socialism but more with adopting certain roles in society) What do i mean with that?

In Europe in the middle ages people were eating almost everything with maybe the exception of soup with their bare Hands. A princess of the east-roman empire was shocked to see this in Germany. She herself has learned to eat with spoon, fork and knife.

In the 17 and 18. Century it was common in middle Europe that people wiped their mouths after eating with their sleeves. Now nobody does it anymore.

A while ago the death penalty was widespread in Europe. Now in many European countries and particularly in western and central Europe there is NO death penalty for absolutely no crime whatsoever.

My thesis: Societies evolve through a series of disciplinary and socialization processes that do NOT come from leaders but more from society itself...these are inner mechanisms that may have complex reasons. For example: Peter the Great once forced the Bojars to cut off their beards. But they refused. Peter wanted to enforce it but it didn´t work. You cannot order directly these disciplinary processes. They are more the consequence of indirect actions and processes.

It is for instance VERY FUNNY that 66 years after World War II there is NO death penalty in Germany and Austria but in The Soviet Union and the U.S.A there is. Even funnier is that there is still 50% of people demanding the death penalty for gruesome crimes but the politicians are saying no in parliament. The same is true for France or other EU countries.

The true problem is not a Religion but more how we deal with each other. Are we saying yes to barbarism or not?

10/24/2011 10:29 am

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I've made up my mind,
Don't need to think it over,
If I'm wrong I am right,
Don't need to look no further,
This ain't lust,
I know this is love but,
If i tell the world,
I'll never say enough,
Cause it was not said to you,
And thats exactly what i need to do,
If i'm in love with you.

10/24/2011 10:16 am

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. said:
CompassionBreak said:
. said: If Lara does get her act together, she will find her ass divorced. who the fuck will marry her then.

Guys, what I do not understand is why this moron does not get that being married to someone with that kind of thinking would not exactly be a privillage any woman would try to hold on to. It would be a disaster.

Sure, if this wood-head ever found a wife, she should better be hiding EVERYTHING from him. Especially their children.

what the fuck do you know about the intricate workings of a mans mind. I would say, nothing! maybe you know something about Lara's, becuase your a woman and understand things about her that men don't. so just shut the fuck up on this one, you don't know what your talking about.

In history men had to come to terms with their wives and daughters being raped in times of peace and war.

There are many possible strategies to deal with this. But if you eliminate a) killing the woman and b) casting her away from you then you have seriously consider how to deal with this. And men -i find that wonderful actually - have dealt with it in the best possible way there was. They accepted even the offsprings of rapes. They had to. There were so many wars in Europe...it was just not possible to always go a) and b) when all of the women of your village and city got raped by marauding warriors. So it is not realistic depicting men as brooding over the details of the rapes of their wifes. Most men probably just want to forget and get on with their lives and marriages. Not really the best strategy but it is kinda positive at the least. In the future i hope we are acknowledging the need for therapy even for husbands and grooms and sons and parents and friends and not only for the raped victims themselves.

Even here in this board i feel that many of us are very mildly traumatized by what happened to Lara Logan and i find that GOOD and actually INSPIRING that we react in that way. It is not some sort of joke or diminishing in stating: Yes i am hurt by what happened to her and i need to talk about it to someone. It is more a sign of strength. And it is honest in a good humane way.
10/24/2011 10:00 am

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. said:Look, Troll, you are telling us "this is how men think."
Nine is telling us "men do not think so."
I consider Nine to ne much more of a man than you. So, why would I believe you, rather than Nine?
Simple math.

Men really do not think like that troll. Do we men have a different sexuality than Women? Yeah we do. But that doesn´t mean that we are insensible and stupid emotionally speaking. We care and feel too.

10/24/2011 8:46 am

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. said:Actually, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You're just parroting Republican and Libertarian propaganda written by pundits and talk show hosts who have no idea what their talking about and no legal obligation to report the truth (unlike actual journalists). The answer isn't exterminating Muslims. The answer is helping them enter modernity by adapting secular democracy over archaic theocracy. Christian were just as bad as Muslims on up to the 20th century. What changed us was the Civil Rights Movement and the separation of church and state. Those things are not exclusive to Christian nations. Democracy was invented by the Greeks, not George Washington or the Pope. Islamic people have just as much right to it as anyone and any good person would hope it takes hold rather than hoping democracy fails in those nations and praying for the extermination of the vast majority of hman beings (those who aren't Christian... you know... "DAAAARK HEARTED PEEEEOPLE!" lol


Agree with all of the above. But let me add one thing: We must also erase Militarism. It is not acceptable that almost every leader in the near or middle east is either a former general or somehow deeply connected to the military/security apparatus of his country. That is simply not acceptable. We need not only democracy but a democracy of CITIZENS and a citizend-society.
10/23/2011 11:21 pm

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. said:its one thing for a guys wife to be raped before they met, but its totally different during marriage. to a man, her wife is his exclusively, once other men, espeacially third world men filthy and soil their wives, she will never be the same anymore in his eyes. she is not exclusive anymore, men feel shamed. she is forever ruined in his eyes.

Well i am a WESTERN man and i tell you it would be of no difference for me if my wife or girlfriend was raped by kalahari bushmen or anglo-saxon New Yorker graphic novel drawers. She is my damn partner! She may exclusively bestow upon me the privilege of sexual contact as i would too in mutual agreement but that doesn´t mean that rape is somehow breaking this contract of our own free account. How could it?

. said:
also consider, she recklessly gave it up, this will create even more resentment. As a man I know this, he spends a lot of time thinking about what they did, he wants to know every detail, and calculate how much she has been diminished. he will also wonder, is what she told me everything, or is she hiding something. I am sure that household has many slamming doors and one giving the other the silent treatment. If Lara does get her act together, she will find her ass divorced. who the fuck will marry her then.

What the...? I am laughing here, really i am! There is a point after each detail would just be unnecessary. I mean if i hear my wife was raped vaginally and orally what the heck should i ask her about anymore? What little details would make it worse? That they forced her anally? That they masturbated on her? That i should think over?

And maybe they are having fights now. It is understandable. Still you shouldn´t glee about it. It is a hard time for anybody involved.

And concerning who will marry her: She won´t get divorced because she and her husband are serious adults. And if she were without a husband - hypothetically speaking - everyone would just line up. And if someone would not line up then he isn´t worth of her anyways.
10/23/2011 11:06 pm

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. said: But she should be a lesson to all young girls about how not to disgrace yourself, your family and your country by using some common fucking sense.

You cannot disgrace anybody by being raped or sexually assaulted. Buddy. That is medieval. You disgrace yourself by taking money of big corporations and selling out the interests of your voters. Or by nodding to things you KNOW are morally and ethically and rationally wrong. That is disgracing yourself. There you lose your honor.
10/23/2011 11:01 pm

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NINE: Your evidence gathering is COOL. Very well done. Wow. For me you got your master right here.
10/23/2011 10:12 pm

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Yea. Agree with all of the above 100%. I got nothing to add to that. Nine covered everything that needed to be said brilliantly.

Maybe one last PARTHIAN Arrow: I am sick and tired of telling people here that the victim is not to be blamed but rather the attackers. I have the feeling the attackers are only then mentioned negatively when there is a possibility to hurt LL with it. Rant end.

10/23/2011 9:22 pm

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I can´t say anything to THAT. I am just speechless.
10/23/2011 7:50 pm

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. said:Scott Pelley grabs his chin to fake concern. At the end of each show when they flip back to him to end the show he always does it.

Maybe he is moved at the end of each show? What do you think?
10/23/2011 6:09 pm

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CompassionBreak said:I am not so sure is she asked or if she *was asked,* actually.

A very interesting point that is - for good reason i feel - not exactly communicated by CBS: who made the suggestion for Laras Team to go to Tahir. Because there may have been another assignment BEFORE that got cancelled or somewhat changed and then the CBS Team went to Tahir as second assignment...now if THAT is true then the CBS Team was kinda unprepared. They were essentially prepared for - let´s assume - an interview with a high ranking egyptian leader and then that got cancelled and the assignment was changed to interviews in Tahir to get something out of the travel to egypt. In THAT case the CBS Team had no chance against a well timed attack.

CompassionBreak said:
e) Someone (Elitist?) once suggested that during her previous stay in Egypt, someone could have simply "developed an unhealthy personal interest" in her.

BTW yes it was me that proposed the bit about the "unhealthy interest of someone". Why do i say that? Well during the first visit the CBS Team was threatened with unspeakable deeds. We can assume it was of a graphic sexual nature especially toward Lara Logan. So however directly threatened the CBS Team with these threats is one serious dangerous and perverse man. He may have directed the threats only to Lara Logan. IF that is the truth then he was directly sexually threatening HER. And that means he is the NUMBER ONE suspect for what happened to her: Either he was only ordering it or he had taken part in it himself. But WHOEVER it was...WHATEVER name may come up...the guy that DIRECTLY threatened the CBS Team or Lara Logan on the first visit IS THE MAN BEHIND THE ATTACK. He may have other bosses behind him but he was the one who made the principal operational plan and executed it. He may have been one of the guys that are specializing in these kinds of torture or attacks.

That is the funny thing about it: WHOEVER it was that threatened them...whoever SAID it to them...is the Guy. And he has a name. And a rank. And a unit he commands or is commanded in. He has a flat or a house where he lives. He has maybe even family.

So...you should be starting to pray my "friend". That your name doesn´t come up ever. I would personally nail your name and your picture in the middle of Times Square at everything that isn´t breathing. God is great but a troll´s rage is even greater.
10/23/2011 4:58 pm

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The rael superjerk said:Nine, from everything I have read. I like and respect you. But your analogies are far fetched.

She was like the cop that busts down the door of an armed crack dealer without calling for backup.

She was like the man who jumped into a pool of sharks to save a piranha.

She put herself in the middle of a crowd where reporters were being assaulted all week. She had one body guard. She knew she was surrounded by thousands of men who had been drinking. Men who often see western women as whores and are taught by the very tenets of their faith that women who don't cover their heads are uncovered meat.

She is zero percent responsible for her rape. She is 100 percent responsible for putting herself in a place where she would likely be raped. I still can't believe that her body guard didn't speak up and warn her. I think he did. If he has one iota of training and basic commonsense he would have told her to move to a more secure location. She chose not to. Her crew could have filmed the crowd from the out skirts and the fixer and the drivers could have brought people to her to be interviewed. She could have set up near the army tanks. But no. She thought, I am a big time war corespondent and I am going to headlessly jump in. She will never do anything like that again. WHy? cause it's stupid and stupid gets you raped and killed in situations like that.

Why do you believe SHE HAD THE DECISION POWER? YOu correctly bring the bodyguard to the table. What if the mistakes were made by other people and not her?

Why do you and everybody else here picture her to be the CHIEF of her team? She is ONLY the Chief Foreign Correspondent. That does not need to mean much when it comes to assignments. We dont know the hierarchy structure of CBS News particularly in active assignment missions. We assume she had the full control. But what if not? Sure she could have said NO...but that would not been advisable to tell her employer.

What is it that whenever the talk is about her mistakes we just assume that she had the final words about any detail in this matter? What if she didn´t? And if she didn´t is it fair to lay the blame and responsibility for what happened to her solely at ther doorstep? She was NO freelancer. She was an employee. Maybe high ranking but still...she was under orders that night.
10/23/2011 1:10 pm

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. said:

women can't shoot straight because they're to busy bitching

Dream on buddy. I can already her the fear out in your voice. Keep moving or the female sniper will get you!
10/23/2011 9:50 am

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Riiiight Nine. Good arguments.
10/22/2011 5:46 pm

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. said:right. she didn't "deserve" it but she did have it coming by taking such a huge risk for what amounted to a fluff piece about how happy the party people in the square were about winning. she was looking for glory and found infamy. she was trying to stick it to the regime but got stuck in the rear. she wanted to flaunt herself and got spanked. the worst injustice in all this is that porn quality cell phone footage hasn't surfaced and gone viral.

Man you got some warped sense of justice and injustice.
10/22/2011 5:45 pm

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The real superhero said:I agree with this guy for the most part. And disagree with you. Journalists were being assaulted all week in these crowds. So she could reasonably expect that she would be assaulted. She chose to go any way. There were practically no women in that crowd and it was filled with drunk horny men. She is a sexy blonde reporter with her head uncovered. She could reasonably expect her assault would be sexual in nature. She didnt ask to be raped but she did surround herself with horny men. She misunderstood the crowd. She misunderstood the mentality Of the uneducated Muslim men that surrounded her. She wasnt just doIng her job, she could have reported from the edge of the crowd. She could have set up in a place with more women around. She made herself the only girl at the frat party and nobody should be surprised that they pulled train. I am not saying its right. But women are seen as sex objects by every man at some point. Alcohol and rage only compound this.

It´s just so strange hearing so many arguments that call to blame HER but not even one argument that clearly and unmistakably blames the men that attacked her. You dehumanize the men that attacked her not in order to punish them but to somehow apologize for them and in turn add blame to her.

I just find it strange, really. So - when you get assaulted when you drive late at night somewhere in the city i can then go to you and tell you some crap about the night is too dangerous for normal people and you are to blame for...driving late at night? Because you know you can - if you really really really want - blame ANYBODY for ANYTHING that happened to him or her. You only have to nitpick on the reasons a little. None of us are living exactly in a 100% secure world. Try to remember that when you are laying in hospital and agonizing about the asshole who put you there because you were driving with your car late at night.
10/21/2011 9:03 pm

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. said:OH! I'm the moron? too dumb? the thing about people is that the traits or characteristics they suspect in others are usually traits that person posseses. for example, if you always suspect other of lying, you are probably dishonest, if you always suspecting that guys are gay, you probably have homosexual tendencies. and in your case, your constant claims of other peoples stupidity is proof of your own stupidity, ignorance and homosexuality.

So according to your logic you are a BAD man? Because you said above MEN ARE BAD.

Are you bad?
10/21/2011 9:02 pm

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. said:It's obvious that you are female becuase you are seeing the world the way you wish it was, not the way it really is. what you fail to realize is that men are bad. If you go into a dangerous neighborhood, and get you ass kick by a group of guys, people will ask, why the fuck did you go there, people will lay some of that blame on you, now understandably, Lara is not 100% to blame for her rape, but the question is, what percentage of the rape is her fault? anyone who thinks that she gets zero blame is someone who has dificulty comprehending things. It would be interesting to break this incident down, unpack it, and figure out, how much of it was her fault. unfortunatly, there is a lot of missing information.

Men are bad? Where did you get THAT one? I am not bad. And YOU are not bad either or you are in prison or dead with 22 in the ghetto.

You wanna now compute probability how much she is to blame? I bet at the end it´s that she is 99% to blame and her attackers only 1%?
10/21/2011 12:12 pm

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dot2dot said:
. said:is that the best rebuttal you guys can come up with? obviously you can't refute my argument that Logan asked for her own gangrape. It's like if you leave your bike in your yard overnight and it gone the next morning. of course theoraticlly, its wrong that someone stole something that was yours, but, people will say, why did you leave your stuff vulnerable to theft. like Lara Logan, her rape was wrong, but she left herself vulnerable, and wound up getting herself raped.

I may be a little slow getting this, I am female after all.

First I'm glad you agree the rape was wrong.

It's the next bit I have trouble with... no really I do:-

'She left herself vulnerable'

How?, she is doing her job, her clothing is not revealing or overly flashy (but we have been over that) She is in a public place, she has work colleagues around her, including some security - admittedly Seal team 6 would have been better.
You seem to be arguing that being a woman she should just have stayed at home, and by implication that none of us should go out after dark and none of us should consider doing anything even remotely dangerous .. just in case a male walks our way and finds himself unable to control his urges... please tell me this isn’t your view.

I think more baffling is his metaphor with the bicycle: Does that mean that rape means something is taken away from a woman? Because if that is not meant then the bicycle bit doesn´t work at all. For me something is proposed here: That woman better take care because someone would take their virtue or honor away. Now that is medieval thinking and not western-modern at all. You cannot take anything away from a woman with rape. It is just not possible. The woman is hurting and is traumatized but that doesn´t mean she is lacking something she had before. That idea i do not like because it paves the way for other metaphors that are really just as medieval.

No that bit about her making any mistakes is wrong too: A crime is not an accident where you can say that the wounded MAY under certain circumstances be partly to be blamed for what happened. In a crime that would just be unethical. The Blame should go to the perpetrator and not to the victim. Especially in rape related cases it is just apologizing for the deed.

PS: females are NOT slow by any means but i know you meant it in a dry gallows sense of humor ;)

10/21/2011 11:36 am

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dot2dot said:Couple of things...

OK so CBS hired another foreign correspondent, her name is Clarissa Ward btw. They did not hire another Chief foreign affairs correspondent they have one already, her name Lara Logan.

I don't know what sort of nightclub you go to dude but it must be way boring if it features the same sort of clothing Lara Logan was wearing that night.

The invisible Lara is a lead for 60mins she has been the 'face' of CBS news in Afghanistan and Iraq and got an Emmy in 2008 so she was on someone’s radar you may want to recalibrate your equipment.

Is she a hero? , most likely not, but she does deserve some consideration for starting to rebuild her life after what she has suffered – give the woman a break.

If that makes me a fascist lemming... lead me to the next Lemming Rally

HEY! :( For me she IS a hero. We two have incommensurable differences :) Nah i am just kidding! *Thumps up!* for your post.
10/21/2011 7:22 am

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. said:It seems the dynamic that is most prevalant on this thread is "groupthink".

Where does anyone agree on most matters here? Even among the Lara Logan supporters there are differences - sometimes vast differences. Only because we do not see her as a whore that got herself raped by her own fault doesn´t mean we all share the same opinion on other matters concerning her. Just for instance Compassion is far more on the feminist side than any man (duh...) She is also very heavily expressing religious ideas in her view on life and the Lara Logan Incident (meaning that she for instance defends Islam and Muslims against broad accusations) She is also very interested in specific skills Lara Logan possesses: namely her knowledge about the middle east.

I for instance am surely not a feminist (although i believe in exact the same rights for men and women thank you very much!) I am not religious and couldn´t care less about Islam and the defense of muslims. I am also not THAT interested in Laras views on the middle east - i am more interested in the way she MAKES stories: Her voice, the structure of her reportages, her personal style and working with people and material her general skills as a journalist and her work-ethics.

I am sure NINE and MASKED TRUTH or TRUTHSEEKER are also completely different. Some of them are even much more skeptical about Lara than i and Compassion are. Is that wrong? No.

And even among YOUR "group" there are people, who maybe think Lara is indeed to blame for what happened to her, but they also have different views on that matter. There is Superjerk and there are others. There are extremely vulgar guys and people you can almost talk with...like you for instance. You are not the most extreme Lara Logan Hater here. Not by a long shot.

PS: I miss some of the women who wrote here: The one, who said that every man she met wanted to secretly rape her and we men were ALL perverts anyway - She was fun to be around. Or DEFIANT. Or also some of the men like Mr. Ravishment or Father Perrault or ManInLove. What i try to say is: There are no lemmings here. It was ever a very distinct crowd.

10/20/2011 11:32 pm

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. said:Ghadafi is dead, there are celebrations in Tripoli with foreign corrispondants standing amongst the jubilant crowds reporting and where is Lara Logan? she should be there right now. this is a huge moment. maybe her husband did not give her permission, which in that case its understandable, I guess.

She is still having problems that is only understandable. And it´s not about her husband giving her any permission get real. If she would be able to go she would go...husband´s permission be damned (he wouldn´t have it any other way) But she cannot because she is still hurting too much.

. said:
Its like when parents let their teenager use the car, if one day they do something irrisposible like reckless driving or accident, the parents take the keys away. but at some point, you have to give them the keys back, after they earn their parents trust back. At some point, the leash on Logan needs to be loosened, hopefully Tahir taught her something and she can come back. time will tell.

Firstly: She is NO teenager. She is very probably and likely much more mature than we both are. I shudder at the thought of us two trolls being several years in Afghanistan. You would probably be in a asylum and i would be dead. Secondly: It couldn´t have taught her anything because it was a one time thing. Even the best and brightest and most careful man sometimes just dies at Mount Everest or is killed in war. That doesn´t mean that there is necessarily something to be taught. Sometimes shit just happens.

You just want to humiliate her like the rapists albeit differently. But it doesn´t work.

10/20/2011 11:22 pm

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. said:http://psychology-forum.com/mental-health-general-forum/i-think-i'm-a-sick-man/

first post mentions Logan. It seems the Lara rape incident seems to be pschologically having adverse effects on people. Why wasn't she more careful? she did a lot of damage to people mentally. I still get angery when I thing of the things that were done to her. those filthy men soiling one of our women, and you know, they are laughing about it and still making crude jokes about it. I feel humiliated as well, someone needs to shake Lara really hard and ask, What the fuck is wrong with you? What were you thinking? You have ebarrassed a nation!

It is clear that the boy has issues because of his teenager hormones and of sexual frustration! He is even totally honest with it. It has nothing to do with Lara Logan at all. You put things out of context! FOCUS.

And i feel humiliated too as a westerner and a member of the male sex/gender. But i do not want to shake Lara and ask what the fuck is wrong with her. No. I want to SHAKE YOU AND ASK WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU. Yes. YOU. What are you thinking? You have embarrassed yourself! As a writer. As a westerner. As a man. As a human fucking being!

10/20/2011 6:37 pm

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. said:Two Christians being stripped, beaten and lynched in the street in Cairo. The Logan video probably looks something like this. Do not watch unless you want to be scarred for life.


It´s pretty rough. Poor men. And you are right LL footage would probably look a lot like this. God help us.

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