The problem is NOT Islam but more broadly speaking culture and a lack of disciplining and socialization (nothing to do with socialism but more with adopting certain roles in society) What do i mean with that?
In Europe in the middle ages people were eating almost everything with maybe the exception of soup with their bare Hands. A princess of the east-roman empire was shocked to see this in Germany. She herself has learned to eat with spoon, fork and knife.
In the 17 and 18. Century it was common in middle Europe that people wiped their mouths after eating with their sleeves. Now nobody does it anymore.
A while ago the death penalty was widespread in Europe. Now in many European countries and particularly in western and central Europe there is NO death penalty for absolutely no crime whatsoever.
My thesis: Societies evolve through a series of disciplinary and socialization processes that do NOT come from leaders but more from society itself...these are inner mechanisms that may have complex reasons. For example: Peter the Great once forced the Bojars to cut off their beards. But they refused. Peter wanted to enforce it but it didn´t work. You cannot order directly these disciplinary processes. They are more the consequence of indirect actions and processes.
It is for instance VERY FUNNY that 66 years after World War II there is NO death penalty in Germany and Austria but in The Soviet Union and the U.S.A there is. Even funnier is that there is still 50% of people demanding the death penalty for gruesome crimes but the politicians are saying no in parliament. The same is true for France or other EU countries.
The true problem is not a Religion but more how we deal with each other. Are we saying yes to barbarism or not?
I've made up my mind,
Don't need to think it over,
If I'm wrong I am right,
Don't need to look no further,
This ain't lust,
I know this is love but,
If i tell the world,
I'll never say enough,
Cause it was not said to you,
And thats exactly what i need to do,
If i'm in love with you.
In history men had to come to terms with their wives and daughters being raped in times of peace and war.
There are many possible strategies to deal with this. But if you eliminate a) killing the woman and b) casting her away from you then you have seriously consider how to deal with this. And men -i find that wonderful actually - have dealt with it in the best possible way there was. They accepted even the offsprings of rapes. They had to. There were so many wars in Europe...it was just not possible to always go a) and b) when all of the women of your village and city got raped by marauding warriors. So it is not realistic depicting men as brooding over the details of the rapes of their wifes. Most men probably just want to forget and get on with their lives and marriages. Not really the best strategy but it is kinda positive at the least. In the future i hope we are acknowledging the need for therapy even for husbands and grooms and sons and parents and friends and not only for the raped victims themselves.
Even here in this board i feel that many of us are very mildly traumatized by what happened to Lara Logan and i find that GOOD and actually INSPIRING that we react in that way. It is not some sort of joke or diminishing in stating: Yes i am hurt by what happened to her and i need to talk about it to someone. It is more a sign of strength. And it is honest in a good humane way.
Men really do not think like that troll. Do we men have a different sexuality than Women? Yeah we do. But that doesn´t mean that we are insensible and stupid emotionally speaking. We care and feel too.
Agree with all of the above. But let me add one thing: We must also erase Militarism. It is not acceptable that almost every leader in the near or middle east is either a former general or somehow deeply connected to the military/security apparatus of his country. That is simply not acceptable. We need not only democracy but a democracy of CITIZENS and a citizend-society.
Well i am a WESTERN man and i tell you it would be of no difference for me if my wife or girlfriend was raped by kalahari bushmen or anglo-saxon New Yorker graphic novel drawers. She is my damn partner! She may exclusively bestow upon me the privilege of sexual contact as i would too in mutual agreement but that doesn´t mean that rape is somehow breaking this contract of our own free account. How could it?
What the...? I am laughing here, really i am! There is a point after each detail would just be unnecessary. I mean if i hear my wife was raped vaginally and orally what the heck should i ask her about anymore? What little details would make it worse? That they forced her anally? That they masturbated on her? That i should think over?
And maybe they are having fights now. It is understandable. Still you shouldn´t glee about it. It is a hard time for anybody involved.
And concerning who will marry her: She won´t get divorced because she and her husband are serious adults. And if she were without a husband - hypothetically speaking - everyone would just line up. And if someone would not line up then he isn´t worth of her anyways.
You cannot disgrace anybody by being raped or sexually assaulted. Buddy. That is medieval. You disgrace yourself by taking money of big corporations and selling out the interests of your voters. Or by nodding to things you KNOW are morally and ethically and rationally wrong. That is disgracing yourself. There you lose your honor.
Yea. Agree with all of the above 100%. I got nothing to add to that. Nine covered everything that needed to be said brilliantly.
Maybe one last PARTHIAN Arrow: I am sick and tired of telling people here that the victim is not to be blamed but rather the attackers. I have the feeling the attackers are only then mentioned negatively when there is a possibility to hurt LL with it. Rant end.
A very interesting point that is - for good reason i feel - not exactly communicated by CBS: who made the suggestion for Laras Team to go to Tahir. Because there may have been another assignment BEFORE that got cancelled or somewhat changed and then the CBS Team went to Tahir as second assignment...now if THAT is true then the CBS Team was kinda unprepared. They were essentially prepared for - let´s assume - an interview with a high ranking egyptian leader and then that got cancelled and the assignment was changed to interviews in Tahir to get something out of the travel to egypt. In THAT case the CBS Team had no chance against a well timed attack.
BTW yes it was me that proposed the bit about the "unhealthy interest of someone". Why do i say that? Well during the first visit the CBS Team was threatened with unspeakable deeds. We can assume it was of a graphic sexual nature especially toward Lara Logan. So however directly threatened the CBS Team with these threats is one serious dangerous and perverse man. He may have directed the threats only to Lara Logan. IF that is the truth then he was directly sexually threatening HER. And that means he is the NUMBER ONE suspect for what happened to her: Either he was only ordering it or he had taken part in it himself. But WHOEVER it was...WHATEVER name may come up...the guy that DIRECTLY threatened the CBS Team or Lara Logan on the first visit IS THE MAN BEHIND THE ATTACK. He may have other bosses behind him but he was the one who made the principal operational plan and executed it. He may have been one of the guys that are specializing in these kinds of torture or attacks.
That is the funny thing about it: WHOEVER it was that threatened them...whoever SAID it to them...is the Guy. And he has a name. And a rank. And a unit he commands or is commanded in. He has a flat or a house where he lives. He has maybe even family.
So...you should be starting to pray my "friend". That your name doesn´t come up ever. I would personally nail your name and your picture in the middle of Times Square at everything that isn´t breathing. God is great but a troll´s rage is even greater.
Why do you believe SHE HAD THE DECISION POWER? YOu correctly bring the bodyguard to the table. What if the mistakes were made by other people and not her?
Why do you and everybody else here picture her to be the CHIEF of her team? She is ONLY the Chief Foreign Correspondent. That does not need to mean much when it comes to assignments. We dont know the hierarchy structure of CBS News particularly in active assignment missions. We assume she had the full control. But what if not? Sure she could have said NO...but that would not been advisable to tell her employer.
What is it that whenever the talk is about her mistakes we just assume that she had the final words about any detail in this matter? What if she didn´t? And if she didn´t is it fair to lay the blame and responsibility for what happened to her solely at ther doorstep? She was NO freelancer. She was an employee. Maybe high ranking but still...she was under orders that night.
It´s just so strange hearing so many arguments that call to blame HER but not even one argument that clearly and unmistakably blames the men that attacked her. You dehumanize the men that attacked her not in order to punish them but to somehow apologize for them and in turn add blame to her.
I just find it strange, really. So - when you get assaulted when you drive late at night somewhere in the city i can then go to you and tell you some crap about the night is too dangerous for normal people and you are to blame for...driving late at night? Because you know you can - if you really really really want - blame ANYBODY for ANYTHING that happened to him or her. You only have to nitpick on the reasons a little. None of us are living exactly in a 100% secure world. Try to remember that when you are laying in hospital and agonizing about the asshole who put you there because you were driving with your car late at night.
I think more baffling is his metaphor with the bicycle: Does that mean that rape means something is taken away from a woman? Because if that is not meant then the bicycle bit doesn´t work at all. For me something is proposed here: That woman better take care because someone would take their virtue or honor away. Now that is medieval thinking and not western-modern at all. You cannot take anything away from a woman with rape. It is just not possible. The woman is hurting and is traumatized but that doesn´t mean she is lacking something she had before. That idea i do not like because it paves the way for other metaphors that are really just as medieval.
No that bit about her making any mistakes is wrong too: A crime is not an accident where you can say that the wounded MAY under certain circumstances be partly to be blamed for what happened. In a crime that would just be unethical. The Blame should go to the perpetrator and not to the victim. Especially in rape related cases it is just apologizing for the deed.
PS: females are NOT slow by any means but i know you meant it in a dry gallows sense of humor ;)
Where does anyone agree on most matters here? Even among the Lara Logan supporters there are differences - sometimes vast differences. Only because we do not see her as a whore that got herself raped by her own fault doesn´t mean we all share the same opinion on other matters concerning her. Just for instance Compassion is far more on the feminist side than any man (duh...) She is also very heavily expressing religious ideas in her view on life and the Lara Logan Incident (meaning that she for instance defends Islam and Muslims against broad accusations) She is also very interested in specific skills Lara Logan possesses: namely her knowledge about the middle east.
I for instance am surely not a feminist (although i believe in exact the same rights for men and women thank you very much!) I am not religious and couldn´t care less about Islam and the defense of muslims. I am also not THAT interested in Laras views on the middle east - i am more interested in the way she MAKES stories: Her voice, the structure of her reportages, her personal style and working with people and material her general skills as a journalist and her work-ethics.
I am sure NINE and MASKED TRUTH or TRUTHSEEKER are also completely different. Some of them are even much more skeptical about Lara than i and Compassion are. Is that wrong? No.
And even among YOUR "group" there are people, who maybe think Lara is indeed to blame for what happened to her, but they also have different views on that matter. There is Superjerk and there are others. There are extremely vulgar guys and people you can almost talk with...like you for instance. You are not the most extreme Lara Logan Hater here. Not by a long shot.
PS: I miss some of the women who wrote here: The one, who said that every man she met wanted to secretly rape her and we men were ALL perverts anyway - She was fun to be around. Or DEFIANT. Or also some of the men like Mr. Ravishment or Father Perrault or ManInLove. What i try to say is: There are no lemmings here. It was ever a very distinct crowd.
She is still having problems that is only understandable. And it´s not about her husband giving her any permission get real. If she would be able to go she would go...husband´s permission be damned (he wouldn´t have it any other way) But she cannot because she is still hurting too much.
Firstly: She is NO teenager. She is very probably and likely much more mature than we both are. I shudder at the thought of us two trolls being several years in Afghanistan. You would probably be in a asylum and i would be dead. Secondly: It couldn´t have taught her anything because it was a one time thing. Even the best and brightest and most careful man sometimes just dies at Mount Everest or is killed in war. That doesn´t mean that there is necessarily something to be taught. Sometimes shit just happens.
You just want to humiliate her like the rapists albeit differently. But it doesn´t work.
It is clear that the boy has issues because of his teenager hormones and of sexual frustration! He is even totally honest with it. It has nothing to do with Lara Logan at all. You put things out of context! FOCUS.
And i feel humiliated too as a westerner and a member of the male sex/gender. But i do not want to shake Lara and ask what the fuck is wrong with her. No. I want to SHAKE YOU AND ASK WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU. Yes. YOU. What are you thinking? You have embarrassed yourself! As a writer. As a westerner. As a man. As a human fucking being!